UtypesTigerTeamMinTel15 < IVOA

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minutes UTYPEs tiger team telecon 2013-04-09<br />absent: Mireille (ML), Pierre (PF)

Discussed the finally accepted approach:<br />The mapping specification we'll propose will only deal with "pure utypes" approach.<br />Backwards compatibility is to state that existing usage can continue, but is not covered by spec.<br />Standards that use utypes in some manner not covered by spec remain valid (e.g. SSA),<br />but new versions should use the approach that we'll propose.

Custom usage can remain being used:<br />PD: if a GROUP with utype="vo-dml:Model" is encountered, the spec is assumed. <br />   If not, the VOTable is not covered by the spec.<br />MD: utypes on FIELD, TABLE and standalone PARAM is ignored, not part of spec, hence may remain in use.<br /> STC in VOTable is treated similalrly, will be legal (even though it has utype on GROUP)<br />PD: same for photometry markup note?<br />All: no, should be rewritten to follow new appraoch.<br />JS: PhotDMv1-1 will have VO-DML representation and SVO, who has been using this, <br />  are willing to conform to our results.<br />MD: so now we will ignore utype on FIELD etc, how in future?<br />PD: users can use utypes on non-standardized elements for application specific purposes.<br />OL: ML and PF not here, should be polled. ML seemed worried about approach.<br />MG: do not need unanimity.

PD: don't like '+' based concatenation of role and type in utype.<br />All agree.<br />GL: need some solution if we want to allow type casting.<br />MD: suggests alternative. generally type casting is useful/relevant "only" on child GROUP-s.<br />   these could get an extra PARAM with a dedicated utype (GL: something like vo-dml:Type.utype)<br />   and with value the utype of the actual type. <br />GL: could also work on FIELDref, to indicate that different rows in a TABLE might hold different<br />   types.

Intermezzo: Note that this means that FIELDref-s and PARAM(ref)-s can NOT use type casting.<br />  May not seem bad as less likely to be important, but should be addressed.

PD: if we'd need changes to VOTable to make our spec work, this would look bad. <br />   Hence against for example requesting 'urole' attribute etc.<br />OL: conclude: we have concensus on this approach of all participants in the current telecon. <br />   Next, what documents will we write? These must be available ~2 weeks before interop. I.e. May 1.<br />MG: need not be polished.<br />GL: propose separate VO-DML and mapping specs. First can be used by DMs without <br />   having to worry about the mapping issue. It is also quite far advanced, being an <br />   evolution of VO-URP. A schema exists, a WD is in the make. Proof of concept models exists<br /> (SimDM and PhotDMv1-1 in the make). First draft translations exist in &lt;volute&gt;/vo-dml/models.<br />   Validation code exists.<br />   Second should be evolved from the mapping document.<br />OL: who:<br />GL: volunteer to write vo-dml, insist Laurent Bourges is co-author.<br />   Second, suggest OL (+ML) make second iteration, redacting the existing mapping doc.<br />   GL assists (3 editors).

PD: question about FITS. We'll propose wrapping with VOTable?<br /> All ok.<br />MD: can put the VOTable inside the FITS doc, in an extension, as a char array.<br />GL: Does datalink have anything to say here?<br />GL: TAP_SCHEMA could be handled similarly, a VOTable representing the complete schema.<br />MD: VODataService has utypes on columns as well.<br />  all agreed to punt this issue.<br /><br />Next meeting Tue 2013-04-16<br />PD: need at least tables of contents for the docs.<br />OL: any auxiliary material?<br />GL: models in VO-MDL.<br />OL: let's go.

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Topic revision: r3 - 2021-04-13 - GiuliaIafrate

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